TVGB sat down with the team behind the videogame DEAD LETTER DEPT., a typing, indie horror game that is full of suspense and will make you question reality. Mike Monroe and Scott McKie are the team at Belief Engine, located in the Pacific Northwest, but some of their current work involves inspiration from Japan, which is where they are currently based doing an extended stay.
TVGB: Let’s talk about Belief Engine and how you guys met. It’s been around for a little over 12 years now, correct?
MM: Yeah, 12 years. We started it, and we were like, let’s see if we can make this work. It’s been a full-time thing since 2020. It was a job opportunity, and I was like, I’ve got to take this. I’m ready to make indie games again.
I moved to Washington to go to a trade school college called DigiPen. Moved there from Colorado in 2004.
SM: In my case, I majored in Fine Arts at Massachusetts College of Art in Boston. I have a BFA. I wanted a Computer Science degree as well, so I did eight years of school. I moved to Washington to get a Computer Science degree to pair with my Fine Arts degree. And when I got out here, I’m like, you know what? That’s actually a lot of money. And I need a job. I don’t have any money. Maybe this wasn’t the smartest idea.
MM: As I went to school, I was more focused on working on video games and 3D art for video games. We were like, we should try to make a video game together. It took a long time for it to work. We did a lot of prototypes, a lot of experimentation.
TVGB: Was there a game that inspired you?
SM: We share a lot of interests, but we also have very different interests. Belief Engine was created mainly as a publishing avenue for our personal projects. We collaborate on each project. DEAD LETTER DEPT. is mainly Mike’s. Even though I helped a lot, it’s still his. We’ve worked on some prototypes together, but for the most part, it’s solo projects.
MM: I honestly like this setup because you have a very specific interest in niche games, and I have a specific interest in niche games. And we’ve got this weird cross-pollination. I’m not going to play some defense games, but it’s still interesting to watch you play and see and understand those little things in those games. So it’s a nice distinction point.
TVGB: When you were developing DEAD LETTER DEPT., how did you use James Alcock’s concept, this idea that the human brain is like a belief engine? Did you include other ideas from thinkers or philosophies?
MM: That specific concept isn’t in this game. I think the concept is leaving home, and what establishes home. The game was about trying to help lost mail find its destination, and the anxieties of moving to a new place. It seemed like a natural place to start exploring those thoughts and philosophies of what makes a person feel like they’ve found a home or belong in a place, especially as the housing crisis was emerging.
I’ve had several friends come and go, moving from place to place, having all these anxieties, moving to Washington to escape some bad situations, relocating, and trying to establish in the world. Any time you’re moving to a new place, you’re in an interesting spot because you’re trying to re-establish your home. It’s also an opportunity to meet people. I grew up in a really conservative military town. I wanted something more interesting, diverse, and a perspective change.
TVGB: Scott, you were involved with the development of DEAD LETTER DEPT. Let’s talk about the late-night data entry job you had back in college that inspired this game.
SM: The bones of the game and the experience are pretty directly based on my experiences. I lived in Boston during college and had an overnight job doing exactly what’s in the game. I got on the train and I took it out into the middle of nowhere to this creepy-looking warehouse, from the outside. Crossed some train tracks and a bridge to get to it, and then I entered in addresses.
Unlike the game, I did have coworkers, and the actual inside of the place wasn’t as creepy. But leaving when the sun was coming up is also in the game. There wasn’t a whole lot of talking during work. That might have been against the rules, I don’t really remember. I did actually really enjoy the job. It let my mind wander; it was really fun. It was especially nice while I was in college. I had projects that I was working on, so I let my mind wander and would think about them.
MM: I remember trying to figure out a game to make that would have this flow state player enter. The flow state is like Tetris. When you understand enough of what’s going on, you can relax and let your mind wander a bit. It happens when you’re doing the dishes, something you’ve done a million times. You’re in an automated state.
SM: Another term for it is “in the zone.”
MM: It’s considered this sweet spot of complication, but ease that you get to when you’re familiar. I wanted to make a horror game that actively messed with the flow state. I remember I asked you (Scott) about your typing job. I was like, “A typing horror game? I don’t know. I’ll prototype it and see what it’s like, and if it doesn’t work, I’ll just throw it away.” And something about it kept me going. It was a very weird journey.
TVGB: What was the weirdest thing about it?
SM: I think the weirdest thing about the game is how much of the innards came from the almost completely unrelated prototype that turned into DEAD LETTER DEPT.
MM: Right before I started DEAD LETTER DEPT., we were working on a game. Basically, the premise was moving to a new city and getting situated. Everything about it was this secret ritual that you were entering, but weren’t really sure about, and everything you interacted with would have this consequence. That was kind of the gist of it. So, I got a lot of the atmosphere and the sound design from putting stuff together from that, and I kind of liked the way it vibed.
This is probably the greatest part: there was code that I did not know what it was doing. And the game would be doing weird stuff. I was like, I don’t know what caused that to happen, but it was really creepy, and I need to figure out how to make that happen on purpose. It was fun working with a haunted codebase; a pain in the butt, too. It was an interesting exercise, discovering happy accidents. There would be weird behavior that I probably wouldn’t have come up with on my own, hooked to this old exoskeleton that was still triggering events. I was like, “Okay, that could be interesting.”
TBGB: Did you initially choose first-person POV to immerse the player, or did you consider adding other perspectives or characters to DEAD LETTER DEPT.?
MM: It was probably the easiest thing to start with. I realized this was pretty immersive to keep it like this. I’d been recently replaying P.T. at the time. So I was like, “First-person is really good at immersiveness.” I didn’t really want to do a third-person character. It can work, but it doesn’t have a connection quite as strong as first-person. And then I’d have to design what the character looks like. I was like, “My time is short. Let’s cut that part out.” Anything that would rob the immersion, I would try to get rid of it. No pop-up tutorials or anything like that…the Post-it notes being on the computer to tell you the instructions so you’re not thrown into the deep end wondering what does any of this do.
SM: Currently, I’m working on a Japanese learning game. Doing a small slice of it. The idea is to release it in parts. The first is learning mechanics; I’m doing lots of research. Language acquisition, getting that solidified and out there. The plan is we can start bringing in more money, and then I move on to the bigger one, which is an immersive, top-down RPG, where you interact with monsters in Japanese.
Definitely lots of inspirations. I love top-down JRPGs. And I love looking at games from the 80s, 90s, Japanese markets, specifically for Japanese computers. They have a very specific aesthetic. I’m trying to make it feel like this software came from Japan.
There’s a visual novel where you wake up, this woman is talking to you, speaking a language you don’t understand, and the entire game is built around interacting with the environment and trying to learn that made-up language. That was a really big inspiration. I was like, maybe this idea is feasible.
TVGB: What are your favorite aspects about developing a game and bringing it to life?
MM: For me, it’s definitely sound design and music stuff. There are so many different parts to work on. It’s nice to have the actual opportunity to do that stuff.
SM: My favorite part, and probably also my biggest downfall, is getting really lost in designing complicated systems. I have this out-there idea that involves this complicated system that needs to be designed completely and working before I can play test it. Trying to curb those urges further for this project, even though it’s a language learning game. That’s hard.
I hate not having management. I like working with just the two of us, but I miss having one more person to keep track of all of the administrative stuff. I do outsource a friend of mine with no experience in software whatsoever, and she volunteers to be a sort of project manager for this project. Right now, I pay her in cookies.
TVGB: Anything else you’d like to share about DEAD LETTER DEPT.?
MM: I’m figuring out what the next project is. My main thing right now is trying to get the soundtrack for the game (DEAD LETTER DEPT.) It’s a little late at this point, but I still want to do it.
SM: The soundtrack is shaping up to be really good. I listened to it very early, it was on my phone, and I went for a walk to listen to it. And then a couple times after that, it would come up on autoplay.
MM: When I was developing the game, I had to keep him sheltered away from seeing it because he was a play tester. What about this works? What about this doesn’t work? What about this evokes the feeling you had when you were working at your job, or what would you need added to recreate that feeling? It’s been really valuable because we’ve known each other for a while, so we know how to communicate.
Aiming to have the soundtrack done by the Steam summer sale. It’s getting mastered, I just need to get all that tied up.
TVGB: What adventures are you planning in Japan?
MM: I’m trying to find as many creepy tunnels as I can. I go through Tokyo and Kyoto. I’ve already been through two so far. The first one in Tokyo, I didn’t fear for my life, but it definitely felt like being in a weird little space where I thought I might not come out the same. There was this underground water tunnel where the floors are all cracked. It has this oil sheen and concrete on the ground. And then there’s this old PA system announcing something every 30 seconds. And it’s underground, it’s under the water. You have to take these creepy stairs down to get to it.
SM: The walls and floor are rusted, but they’re not metal, so I think it’s iron being leached out of the ground somewhere else. Parts look like blood dripping on the walls because of the iron.
MM: I looked at this tunnel. This explains a lot about aspects of Silent Hill. There’s this one part in Silent Hill 4 where you’re going down a bunch of stairs. It’s all weird and rusted and there’s things on the walls. I saw this picture and was like, I have to go. I got inspired. It has a weird surrealness to it. I brought my fancy microphone to record strange noises and sounds as well. Japan has a lot of weird architecture, too.
SM: I’m taking lots of candid shots of houses because they’re really interesting and have unique character. None of this bank of 30 houses that all have the exact same architecture or the exact same paint job. Each one uses a different set of tiles and wood. I’m using that as a reference.
We’ll be going to the only cultural exchange museum, Japan Oni Cultural Museum. Kyoto’s a lot bigger than I realized when I first learned that Kyoto was a city, because there’s also Kyoto’s prefecture. Japan Oni Cultural Museum is in Kyoto, but it’s three hours from here. We’re trying to figure out what the best approach is to get there without getting stranded in the mountains.
MM: It might be a 90-minute hike, which could be cool, being on a mountain in the middle of nowhere. We know enough language to get by for ordering stuff, but not really to have a conversation. We might be able to get a car to drive us up there from one of the residents.
SM: There are parts of Japan where they don’t have taxis. They’re basically citizen taxis that function as a nonprofit. I’ll have to call on the phone to reserve that. We’ll see. Fingers crossed, I can pull off that Japanese.
It takes a lot of guts to explore a city without having a strong foundation in Japanese, but I bet this team can do it! Thank you, Mike and Scott, for taking the time to share about Belief Engine, your collaboration on DEAD LETTER DEPT., upcoming projects, and your adventures in Japan. Sounds like these guys have a lot of exciting new things in development.
In the meantime, you can find DEAD LETTER DEPT. on Steam. And don’t forget to be on the lookout for the release of the videogame soundtrack.
